that attitude is not unique to Tarrytown, it is the stupid, big corp culture that is pervasive everywhere. CYA all the way!

As an example of the TTN communication culture, which apparently hasn't changed since I was there working on IMS: I was solely responsible for a fairly major IMS subsystem and when the time came to provide a status report to "higher management", my boss took my presentation, and told me I couldn't attend because the attendees were too far above my level! I never knew or found out what he or they said to each other.

I'm not sure I agree. Doing it wrong the first time and having to fix it later costs alot more time than taking the time to get it right. And site visits don't have to be that far or frequent. In fact, a panel of representative target customers could be brought into Tarrytown 3-4 times a year as well. Online conferences or even one-on-one discussions can also be used. Your interactions with customers is limited only by your imagination and your desire to be a truly customer driven company. Once you see the value of maintaining close contact with customers at all levels and functions of the organization, you will realize how much time it actually saves you in development or developing marketing strategies and any number of other functions. There are always reasons not to try new approaches and excuses about the pressures of the job today. If Siemens is to succeed and become a leader, it must have leader within diagnostics itself; people who are willing to try new things, take reasonable risks (the risk here is very low if you choose your panel reasonably well) and those who use innovation both technically and operationally to build a team that make their huge investment in diagnostics worthwhile.

Tarrytown has a bunch of inspirational posters in the halls encouraging teamwork. They worked very well. Everone agreed they should be taken down.

Talking with the customer instead of about the customer is being addressed. The problem is the visits to customer sites happened AFTER the prototypes were built! Site visits also pulled people away from their higher priority work, delaying already late projects even more.

While it is nice to hear another voice confirming some of the problems in Tarrytown, I would at least make the comment that CM was brought in for the express purpose of finding the 'guilty' in the Advia IMS disaster and, if you think about it, he actually did a fantastic job from management's point of view.

As far as things in Tarrytown, even I am not as pessimistic as you. I have definitely been critical and provocative, but I don't believe all is lost. And in doing so I have certainly gotten alot of attention and quite a bit of abuse, much to my amusement. But sometimes, when you want to say something, you have to make sure you have people's attention. Yes, there are problems in Tarrytown as there are in many companies. I don't even think it's the people per se, for the most part, but the fact that most don't communicate with one another. I am not talking about supervisor-subordinate communication, although even that, at times is poor. I am talking about communication in a much more global sense. The atmosphere in Tarrytown is to protect one's turf and make sure that when there is a problem that someone (not you, of course) gets the blame. Communication does not mean a quarterly dog and pony show. It is not: I will speak and you will listen. It is talking to people all over the company; people in different departments and people at different levels. Why not encourage people to have lunch with people in different departments; people at different levels. Getting the job done right requires all of these people to perform and work together and understand each other's needs and place in the overall scheme of things. It starts to focus people's attitudes on getting things done rather than fighting one another and does so in a very informal, low pressure atmosphere. This isn't a two day training course on how to play nice together; it's the beginnings of living that way. And the best part of it is that it doesn't cost anything and the risk is extremely low. A once a month social hour in the cafeteria would also promote a more unified atmosphere. Less us vs. them and more WE. I don't know if this will solve all of the problems, but I bet it would make a huge difference on employee attitude surveys in many areas.

The second area of communication is the interaction with the world outside of Tarrytown. Tarrytown should think about not talking ABOUT the customers so much but talking TO the customer more. And even more important, they should be LISTENING to the customer. Every customer interaction should be an opportunity to learn what customers want; what they like about Siemens' and competitive products and what dislike. This includes every sales call, every service call, every training session. Those in routine contact with customers need to be trained to gather this valuable information rather than relying a few 'experts' for input. The experts will tell you what you need in 10-20 years; the regular customers will tell you what you need to do now. Find out what needs to be fixed in the short term and what will it really take for customers to WANT your next system. Bring customers in as part of the team. And make sure that those who do the development have much more direct access to customers to ensure that what is being developed is really meeting their needs.

These are simple things that can be done that would probably turn Tarrytown around dramatically. None of them cost much; they are more an issue of attitude change than expense.

Once again, the choice is yours. You can think about what I suggest and maybe even give parts of it a try or you can return to epithets. It might be a bit of a stretch to read the above as more doom and gloom, but just let it rumble around in your heads for a bit before you make your final judgment.

Here's a safe bet -- no one who posts on this thread makes any legal decisions for Siemens or any of its subsidiaries. Spare us the sue/countersue tit for tat.

In fact, not many employees post anymore. It is inconvenient to do so from a Siemens-issued device (site blocking) and frankly Biofind isn't as entertaining as it used to be. Check out how many posts on this thread come from the same old geezer ... diverse opinions, especially informed ones, don't appear much.

Lawsuit information:

http://www.answers.com/topic/slander-and-libel

http://www.personal-injury-info.net/libel-definition.htm

Be very careful here. It is not so clear who may have the stronger case of libel. I doubt Siemens wants a court case where they have to prove a claim and expose all of their internal documents to the plaintiff.

Get back to work !! Your job is to build a business in diagnostics for Siemens. Stop wasting your time and corporate dollars on this guy. He's playing you all for fools and you keep feeding him.

A Siemens stockholder.

Doom will not go awy, the ego is far too large to allow Doom to stop. Doom's histroy has proven this.

The best is to ridicuile the EGO BULLY.

Dr Doom's demise,
A brief history of demise:

1. Plays expert at knowing what goes on in TTN.
but only bitches about the past while claiming to be saving us all from evil. Needs validation I guess. Where would Duhhhhooommmmm, be with out the readers That The Doctor imagines appreciate.

2. Resents being caught at messing with us.

3. Admits to messing with us.

4. Gets indignant about people who are glad to see him go.

Does the term Ego feak skitsoid come to mind.

Obviously this Dr. Doom is simply seeking attention. The responders are giving him exactly what he wants. At the same time, you are doing nothing to help the reputation of Siemens. The personal attacks on him do nothing to improve your image but only serve to inflate his ego even more. Your best bet is just to drop this thing before it gets out of hand. He will simply vanish back into the gloom of night.

DR. Duhhhummm,
Do you think they have something they are trying to make up for?

Let them explode. Personally I am enjoying watching the ego self distruct.
Obviously has an ax to grind and needs to blame everyone else.

Whomever is taunting Dr. Duh needs to stop. It is clear that they are fragile and on the verge of exploding. Unless of course that is your intent.

I can actually see the red in your face. Your anger is becoming scary. We are also in awe of your knowing more that others. Do ya have a sensitive spot in referance to HH?

Do you make your own clothes? Do the other guys like you? Doom, more like duh. Yeah, that's it, DR. Duh....................

I wonder if Siemens put pressure on this site to delete the explanation of my expose of Tarrytown culture; perhaps they will delete this one as well. It doesn't really matter; the Tarrytown response to my provocative statements speaks for itself.

Once again, April Fools from Dr. Doom

You can remove my postings, but you can't change your stripes.

Morale at Tarrytown is kind of low. Most people think they would do better if managers were replaced by people with more technical competence. People are tired of being told to go down the wrong technical path. With that being said, I don't believe anyone from Tarrytown was attacking Dr. Doom. One of the managers moved on just after the merger. He took his extra-wide load to California, and people began smiling again, for awhile.

my guess is you are not smarter than a 5th grader

One vote for the negative one to clean it up and stick to the present with only facts not the past not the angry not the bad if there is nothing good going on we already know it or possibly see it differently. Angry one is NOT the lord here................Angry oneseems to need this site more than a life.

I too have heard enough of the negative one. Let's all just get on with the work we are being paid for, or get on with whatever is next.

Dear "He who must not be called negative and self important" Or is it He who thinks that what he provides is important?

Count me as another that agrees with the appraisial that you appear negative. But then I suspect that you will create your own reasoning to counter this. The one thing you have in your defense is that most will gravitate toward negative before positive.
While it is true that you call the spade a spade (so to speak) You also do not employ any positive. Here's the point, If your current demeanor were employed in a job interview, you would most likely not get the job.
Did I call you any names? Nope. Take the observation or , use your typical self justification.

Back to the original post about management in Tarrytown. Recent posts give a perfect example of the style in Tarrytown. Someone makes a comment about the recent productivity in Tarrytown. Rather than dealing with the statement itself, the Tarrytown people launch into a barrage of negative statements about the author of the post. At one point, this was called good news syndrome in Tarrytown. Only talk about the good things. Hide and bury anything that sounds bad so the problems never get addressed. This is exactly the kind of behavior that drove many of us out of Tarrytown to much greener pastures. The same pattern of shooting the messenger seems to still exist there. If you like a culture of backstabbing and backbiting, Tarrytown is the place for you. Too bad the cutthroat mentality is directed inwardly rather than at the competition.

To the posters who have a problem with Mr Negative. He raises legitimate points and you answer with negative personal attacks. You are just as negative as he is. Why don't you say something positive about yourselves and your workplace instead and prove him wrong? Your infantile retorts actually makes his statements seem more realistic.

Dear 'He who can't handle being called Negative,

I too are beneath you and I too feel you are negative and a Gerk.

Any one else want to pipe in for the cause of educating the boor.

Ohhhhh I am sooooo sory, I did not realise that you were soooo special and perfect. I will take my POSITIVE attitude and leave you to your meager challenges and need for attention. BTW you are a giant GERK. . TTFN

I remain, positive happy and promise to never, never, suggest that you are negative. You are clearly not capable of getting it.

I have offered you the opportunity to present your positive news or spin about Tarrytown with some real facts and data on the level that I have provided. You answer with childish name calling. Your lack of response pretty much says it all. There is no need to belabor this point any more. Get your last licks in if that makes you feel all macho; I could care less. You have no idea who I am although I have provided ample clues. Am I ..

A current Siemens employee in Tarrytown?
A current Siemens employee at another site?
A former Siemens (Bayer) employee at a competitor?
A former Siemens (Bayer) employee who has retired?
A competitor?
An industry observer who sees what comes out of all DX companies?
A current or former Siemens (Bayer or Dade or DPC) customer?

Wanna guess again?

My comment to you on this subject is:

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

No I am in grade 4.
Are you a follower of, "He who must not be called negative" ? Or, are you simply someone who defines what is and what is not pathetic?

Are you in grade 3. Your responses are pathetic.

Hey Doom Meister, Waaaaaaaaaaaaa, Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaa, Waaaaaaaaaaaaa.

Yer still being negative and angry.I have a dog ya could kick if that would make you feel better. More than one has called your attention to all the negative. Ya just don't get it.

No one feels better as a result of negative news. Only you. Maybe you could get a raise for providing such a valuable service.

Now is the time to use direct name calling as opposed to suspecting.

You are a big doodie head and your mother dressed funny, and yer feet stink and your nose runs alla da time.

Tell us more o angry negative one, we all love to feel bad. meet me out behind the secured lot, I have a bunch of folks who wanna laugh at you.....

Let me see ... I have been called a Gerk (Jerk) and Dr. Doom, but I shouldn't say anyone is calling me names. Those are facts, just check through the thread. I do the point. You have no response to my challenge to you. You want good news here? Present some. You want to brag about the accomplishments in Tarrytown and how your market share has been steadily increasing through internal growth, go right ahead. That's what I want to hear. Tell about all of the new and successful products you've shown at the AACC in the past few years (no need to give away things in progress now). Give us some facts to contradict my claims which, btw, are NOT of doom, they are simply an evaluation of what has and has not come out of Tarrytown recently. So tell us the good news about Tarrytown. Give some facts and data to contradict the ones I have given. What have you done recently to grow the business? What have you done to make us all proud of you? There is no need to hide behind your attempt to play amateur psychologist with me. I am not angry or hostile; I simply look at facts and data and see little that has come from Tarrytown recently. Make me smile at the good news rather than laugh at your feeble attempts to avoid the issue.

Hey Dr Doom from miss-O-urie, You are missing the point and again have revealed your need to be something you are not, I don’t give a poopie about you or the doom you spew. I have anger and frustration? I am not spreading DOOM. I am telling you, to can it. It is bad energy. Go work for someone who can’t pay you. That would be reason for doom/ But keep your doom to yourself. How bout some positive comments? Got any? I think not. No names have been called BTW. You use the false claim that they have been.

As far as who I am. I am not spreading doom and anger and hiding behind a blog. I do not need to do this. Just don’t like the negative. It serves no positive end. Good message needs no author. Rabble rousers have always hidden behind some sort of mask of anonymous fog. See still no names being called. Get it yet?

I do remember H.L.. Or did you mean H.H. He did fix, THINGS, UP. Wayyy up. Were you the one?

Cut out the Poleren der kaka.

HIV and the hepatitis assays weren't just a matter of license negotiations ... the assays were developed by project teams in Tarrytown. Same for BNP and many other assays. Centaur has been updated numerous times, in part because Bayer chose an architecture that proved far less flexible than, say, Beckman's or Dade's. All of that is useful, productive development work that occurred in Tarrytown. Siemens bought Bayer DX largely to acquire the Centaur franchise. That specific enough for you? If it isn't, you're still a boring old-timer with a silly personal vendetta for DS.

Where is YOUR name? You hide as much as everyone else here. Your repeated attacks and lack of any facts or data to support what you claim pretty much says it all. I back up my claims with facts whereas you are the one with the blah blah blah hot air and now substance. Once again ... what has Tarrytown produced (other than one negotiation for HIV and Hepatitis which happened over a decade ago)? Where are the new products from Tarrytown? Where is the increase in customer base due to things that you produced? Call me names all you want, show me YOUR anger and frustration, but without any facts or data to back up your claims of usefulness, your rantings are meaningless. You are trying to make all of this about me (which is quite flattering, I must admit), but it is really about Tarrytown and what goes on there. What we both say is pretty much irrelevant; Siemens will ultimately find the truth (much as Bayer did after they got fooled during the due diligence phase) and the blood baths will begin again (do you even remember what happened when the Germans sent in HL to fix things up?)

I thought they were going to layoff TarryTown starting this month or was that Flanders?

Maybe it is both..

More delays ahead!

Hey "show me dude", Nope not even close to addressing what the bulk of recent posters are defining you as. You are viewed as Dr doom, if one person believes this. Then it is you or them. If more than one you might consider the observations. You do come off angry, you do come off blah,blah, blah, you do visit the past with much frequency, you do sound self serving. Seems to me you place wayyy too much value on what you provide here. Very sad indeed. That you find your involvement here in Bio Find as important and relevant is rather shallow. Stop defending and

GET A LIFE...............Real contributors of information do NOT hide behind anonymous badges.

Thank you all for confirming my position. I have said all along that the most important thing that Siemens got from the Bayer acquisition was the HIV/Hepatitis license. Now you can go back to attacking the messenger or you can tell us about your achievements (if you can). Taking credit for the FDA Consent Decree against Abbott is NOT a Bayer achievement; it was simply their good luck. How is that pipeline of new and improved products coming along? And while you're at it, you could at least thank me for giving you something to focus your frustrations on; if you really have something of value in Tarrytown, why not brag about it instead of attacking an honest critic? I must have hit a nerve. I'm from Missouri --- SHOW ME!!!!

I agree, The Doom Dr. is like sitting next to someone who is yakking on the cell all of the time. They talk, talk,talk, talk,talk, talk,talk, talk,talk, talk,talk, talk,talk, talk,talk, talk, ALL THE TIME you get nothing out of it. I think the point is Dr. Doom provides you with nothing and is all self serving to the initiator.

HEY Doom doctor..... Ya really need some help with all of that angerrrrrrr. If you are on the wrong train, ya should get off and leave the rest of us in peace many are tired of all the negative you spew. Unless of course you need this for your own odd reason. If the later is the case reveal yourself and prove your validity. But I think not. Get off your autonomous high horse.

Second reply to “It may get old and the truth may hurt, but tell me, oh wise one, what have you done lately?” Hi it’s me. The speller of Gerk. Not an attack just an observation that you seem to continuously hang around here signaling doom and reviewing the glory days. And your response to this observation? More of the same while justifying “more of the same”. Ok I get it you are basically ( by nature of your only trick) pretty limited in your scope. You ask “what have you done lately?”. Discovered you for what you are. This is proven by your insistence to defend the indefensible. No attack just plain ol observation. I am not condemning, criticizing or complaining. YOU ARE.

If ya don’t want to be defined as a duck, stop quacking.
Never, never ,never; condemn, criticize or complain. there is nothing ever to be gained. I do suspect that you will try to help this "Wise one" to see what can be gained by it though.
I await the gain you will enlighten me with...............

Attack me all you want ... my future is safe and assured.

Yes, that nice orderly is always willing to change your adult diaper when you hit the buzzer.

Honestly, you don't know what you are talking about. IMS was a disaster, but it wasn't merely a R&D failure. Everyone in management at Bayer DX had a role in that failure. While you keep asserting that Tarrytown had no role in the success of Centaur, that everything just came from Chiron, that's absurd. Centaur's success stemmed from a combination of hepatitis assays, BNP and Abbott's Consent Decree. None of that came from the ACS-180 team. Tarrytown does a pretty good job, especially when you consider some of the stupid strategic decisions they've labored under (lab automation, anyone?).

Oh, and Vista is doing just fine. You keep linking it to IMS in your posts, but the bingo caller must be confusing you. IMS was DOA (and Siemens knew that at the time the Bayer acquisition closed), but Vista continues to improve and gain market acceptance.

OK, no doubt next we'll all hear some grand Technicon story from back in the day. Save it, Gramps ... no one cares. Technicon, Bayer, Dade are all in the distant past. The people who work at Siemens need to focus on the present and the future. Things will be tough enough, dealing with the ridiculous expectations created by Siemens management overpaying for all three elements of DX.

It may get old and the truth may hurt, but tell me, oh wise one, what have you done lately? From a business point of view, Centaur was worth purchasing as were the licenses to HIV and hepatitis testing. Centaur was not developed in Tarrytown and its successor, product line extensions have not been terribly successful. Immulite was intended as a short term cash cow; Centaur the longer term cash cow. Siemens assumed they would have their own Siemens developed system by 2012 which would replace all of the old Dade and Bayer systems. How's that one going? Better that IMS and Vista, I hope. The point is not about Tarrytown's paast. It is about what have they done lately, which seems to be very little. It's about Tarrytown's future, which, if they can't be productive, will be very limited. Chastise me if you will, but keep your eyes and ears open for your own sakes. Or do what many in LA did ... keep your heads in the sand, draw the wagons around in a circle at any negative, yet realistic comment, and continue to live in your own little world of self-praise and overestimation of your worth. Just keep in mind that Siemens only cares about one thing: What have you done lately !!! Not much based on what you have shown at your AACC booth recently. Attack me all you want ... my future is safe and assured. Is yours?

You ARE still a big GERK and I suspect that you never had anyone to dress you funny. Get over the past. Ya need a life. If you must continue to find meaning in your life, by re hashing the same ole same ole. Put a little booth out on Benedict Ave, and tell everyone ya see. You remind me of all the cartoons of the street crazy profit, walking around with the doom sign...................

"EMERGENCY, EMERGENCY, EVERYBODY TO GET FROM BUILDING THE DOOM IS COMING, THE DOOM IS COMING."

It gets old after awhile but it does serves only you.

Once Siemens decided to buy Bayer and Dade, it was part of the integration plan to consolidate LA and Llanberis. The same isn't true for Tarrytown. Btw, real estate never drives these plans -- if the real estate is valuable (and that value is higher than the book value Siemens Real Estate assigned to the property when it was acquired), you can always do a sale/leaseback to capture the value without the disruption of the move.

Can you ever write a post without droning on about the glories of Technicon? Ancient Rome is comparably relevant to today's IVD industry.

I wonder if the people in Tarrytown will be as naive as those in LA were when their turn comes. Now that the end is in sight for LA, Siemens can turn its attention to streamlining Tarrytown, perhaps to the point where they can move to smaller quarters and sell the high priced property. No one in Tarrytown seems to think this will happen. I can only refer those head-in-the-sand types to all of the early posts from the ex-DPC crowd. It is just difficult to believe that Siemens will retain an expensive property and a large R&D group that hasn't produced a successful product line in over a quarter of a century. Worse yet, Siemens must be aware that whatever talent existed in Tarrytown is gone. What remains is a group of tired and disenchanted old-timers who have been beaten up to the point of not caring, a new gang of energetic and enthusiastic people who lack both the knowledge and experience to produce successful new systems, and a few old managers who have kept their jobs through their political skills with no real history of success. The glories of the past in Tarrytown are long gone. No more innovation. No more AutoAnalyzers, no more SMA, no more SMAC, no more RA systems, and no more state-of-the-art hematology systems. The kingdom of innovation and success has been replaced by the garbage producers of Chem 1, DAX, AXON, and Advia IMS. Do the remaining people in Tarrytown really believe that Siemens doesn't see this too? Well, guess what Tarrytooners ... your turn is next and coming up soon.

Quote
"Despite all of these problems and however things play out, there is no logical scenario that will extend the life of LA past mid-2011 or revitalize the Immulite program."
End Quote

We've been saying the exact thing on the DEUCE for several years. We do think it might go till end of 2011 but that's about it for LA. Immulite is destined for esoteric assays and DX is not pushing the line. It never planned to. Previous CEO's have already told us this.
The remaining 120 in LA are already prepping resumes including their managers.
But what infuriates people is when DQ and HR show up telling them how much they feel their pain...and want, or should I say demand, their respect and loyalty.
It was bad enough with LA getting short changed with a totally inept Senior RD Management years ago but these guys run Siemens DX. It's a wonder the branch has lasted this long.
When it comes to employee's, HR is as stiff as plastic.
DQ's sincere apology to employee's was worse than swallowing bad medicine. Fake tears would have helped. Although they have the right to go wherever they want they never should have showed up in LA.
I just hope things go better in Tarrytown. But let LA be an eye opener. It's a shame. DX really could have been something.

I can assure you that the future for Siemens DX does not depend on the development of a Vitaman D assay, be it on Immulite, Centaur, or even eventually Vista. As far as the recession sealing the fate for LA, you are way off base. LA's fate was sealed as the ink was drying on the acquisition papers. Immunlite was never meant to be a cash cow and the DPC customer list was considered as an opportunity to convert customers to Centaur and whatever new systems Siemens expects to introduce in the next few years. There was NEVER a long term future for LA from the Siemens perspective. The major reasons that Siemens DX is such a disaster is that Siemens expected to get at least something from Bayer's Advia IMS and Dade's Vista. The IMS is already dead and buried and Vista lives on only on the life support of the service engineers who seem to be required on almost a full time basis. Worse yet, Siemens now knows that they cannot count on the technology behind either the IMS or Vista for future system development and that their future will simply be combinations of Dimension and Centaur or some system they develop on the outside. Sooner or later, heads will roll, but only when Siemens starts to deal with filling a pipeline that they thought was full and have discovered to be empty. Given the failure of the IMS and the poor performance to date of Vista and the long time that has elapsed since the original launch without a clear fix to the problems that plague Vista, Siemens now has to worry whether they have enough talent at either Tarrytown or Glasgow to develop new and innovative products.

Despite all of these problems and however things play out, there is no logical scenario that will extend the life of LA past mid-2011 or revitalize the Immulite program.

No one would pay anything close to what Siemens paid, so such a sale is unlikely. The embarassment and accounting write-off associated with such a move would be too tough for management to swallow. Either making due (most likely) or spinning the whole mess off to shareholders (unlikely) are the only real options.

In a talk given by HR, the Immulite is still going strong but is considered the third banana behind Vista and Centaur.
Relatively no assay development for it anymore. All assays which were currently being Immulite developed are now heading to Centaur. The big one which comes to mind is Vitamin D.
Siemens is also doing what it can to cut cost, considering they overpaid for all three companies, and it's the main reason LA is bascially all but shutdown. They'll be keeping 120 or so on staff indefinitely.
This plan was in play before any recession news. The recession just sealed it.

siemens is very eager to find a buyer for overpaid dx